Would It MakeUFeel Better if There Was No Hell? The Old Test.Does Mention Not
No mention of hell could be found in the Old Testament, only Sheol which includes all spirits whether good or evil. Does this mean hell is a concept introduced by the New Testament?
Nope! There is no mention of “hell” in the NT originally written in Greek, and the Dante & popular depictions are not found in the original Greek either!
What we do encounter are the concepts of hades, gehenna, Tartarus, the lake of fire & chaff thrown into a furnace.
[Edit: I do not oppose the traditions of the RCC that answer a philosophical conundrum not articulated in scripture.
The questioner asks about the witness of scripture, so my response is exclusively from what scripture does articulate.
The witness of scripture does not support USA fundamentalist views of “Hell”, the populist view, or Dante’s parodies.
The RCC position is given in the Catechism (1035) “The teaching of the [Catholic] Church affirms the existence of hell [Gehenna] and its eternity. Immediately after death, the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell [Gehenna], where they suffer the punishments of hell [Gehenna], "eternal fire" [understood as the wrath of God, not a literal fire]. The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs”.
I use the term “oblivion” in its primary meaning “out of sight” (completely forgotten). I don’t advocate annihilationism, although I acknowledge the metaphor of scripture would indicate that as the fate of the irredeemable. [/edit]
Hades/Sheol
Have a read of Luke 16:22–26, here Jesus places Abraham, Lazarus & the Rich man in the same place of the dead = “Hades” (vs23).
The word “Hell” is derived from a proto-Germanic source, which has the direct meaning of “to cover; hide” and colloquially was a reference to the common grave.
Wycliffe & Tyndale used the word in that context.
Somewhere in the development of English. “Hell” was redefined to refer to a place of torment, which cannot be valid as Abraham, Lazarus & even Jesus found themselves in Hell/Hades. Many modern translations transliterate the original Greek “Hades” where the KJV deceptively renders “Hell.”
Also note in the parody of Luke 16:22–26, the total inactivity of Lazarus. This depiction conforms with the OT teaching that “the dead know nothing at all” (Eccl 9:5).
Also notice in the parody, that consciousness in Hades is restricted to two community leaders (the Rich Man, who in the parody is readily taken as a thinly disguised reference to the High Priest Caiaphas (aka, the reference to his father & five brothers) and Abraham),. From an OT perspective, that consciousness is intermittent & selective, and restricted to a societal elite is self-evident. (cp. Isaiah 14:9).
We find similar intermittency of the consciousness of the dead at Rev 6:9–11 where those beneath the alter are told to stop complaining and go back to sleep (“it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer”).
Sleep is the NT & OT metaphor for death, and an awakening is a metaphor for the resurrection (eg: Daniel 12:2 “And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt).
Gehenna
The KJV also mistranslates the NT “Gehenna” as Hell.
Hades & Gehenna are two entirely different places/events, which is why Jesus differentiates them!
Gehenna is usually taken to refer to the rubbish tip outside of Jerusalem where the bodies of executed criminals and other trash were thrown, burnt up, and turned to dust. In Jewish myth, it also refers to a river of fire that flows through Sheol, into which the angels would throw the irredeemable within 12 months (12 months was a maximum term of purgation before final punishment in Jewish traditional lore).
Tartarus
In Greek mythology, Tartarus was the lowest level of the many layers of Hades. It was conceived as a place of absolute darkness, which is possibly why the author of 2 Peter 2:4 chose it as a description of the ultimate fate of apostates. Some evangelicals, relying on Jude 1:6 over-emphasize Tartarus as the place of captivity for the fallen angels. It is mistranslated as “Hell” in most English translations, but most modern translations include a footnote notifying the Greek refers to Tartarus.
The Lake of Fire
This illusion of Revelation may reflect Daniel 7:9–10 which reveals the day of judgment with a river of fire flowing from the throne of the Ancient of Days (ie: God) and the seating of the court of justice with the book/s of life opened.
If in conformity with Jewish expectations of the fate of the wicked, then it designates complete obliteration of the irredeemably wicked (see Gehenna above).
Chaff is thrown into a furnace
A designation of obliteration, from “dust to dust” so to speak (cp. Gen 3:9).
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| Dantes inferno |
There is nothing in scripture that lends support to Dantes's confection of parodies or the doom & gloom of the pulpit pounders’ negativism.
According to scripture, both OT & NT, when you die, you remain in the ground (dust to dust = Gen 3:19) without consciousness or activity until the resurrection to come. Daniel 12:2 implies not all will receive the resurrection, only some.
[Edit: I omitted to include…
- Jesus analogy of obliteration (cut to pieces) at Mt 24:50–51;
- At Mt 25:30,41 Jesus appears to indicate there is a period of purgation preceding “[the] cursed, [being cast] into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels”. This would appear to follow Jewish lore. (see Gehenna);
- The “[thrown into] outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth” is a regular theme in Matthew (Mt 8:12, 22:13, 25:30) it would appear to be a form of purgation before final judgment. Compare 2 Peter 2:4,9.
- Jesus at Mark 9:45-48 citing Isaiah 66:24 remarks “…to be cast into Gehenna where ‘Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched”.
Most modern English versions of the NT mistranslate τὴν γέενναν as Hell. Interestingly the TR adds εἰς τὸ πῦρ τὸ ἄσβεστο (nto the fire that never shall be quenched) to the end of Mk 9:45 and vsτοῦ πυρὸς (the fire) to the end of Mk 9:47. Both are absent in the GNT and therefore most modern English translations (ie: these clauses are not in the majority or oldest mss).
NB: Some Greek manuscripts exclude Mark 9:46, though all retain the equivalent of vs48.
Many evangelists appear to have been deceived by the unique mistranslation (falsification of the written scripture for the sake of dubious dogmatics) of the NIV in both Isaiah & Mark = “the worms that eat them”. This rendering is not a translation, and is not supported by the original Greek nor the Hebrew) Both the TR & GNT in Greek read “ὁ σκώληξ”. Notice the definite article, it's an identity! By illustration: just as ”o logos” & “o theos” in John 1:1 provide reference to recognizable identities.
NB: Acts 12:23 uses the non-equivalent descriptive “σκωληκόβρωτος”, which literally means “eaten by worms”. In respect to Herod’s fate we read, “he was eaten by worms and [then] died”. Notice the precedence in the event.
In the Greek of both Isaiah & Mark the nominative noun “ὁ σκώληξ αὐτῶν” is specific, definitive, and singular. The phrase has the connotation of the captor of a group (αὐτῶν=their). ie: the αὐτῶν (their=the group) is plural and held captive by the singular “skōlēx” which does not die.
As Jesus is citing Isaiah, and we know he would not have been speaking in Greek, but Aramaic, we should consult the Hebrew text for enlightenment.
Isaiah uses the word “תּוֹלָע = towla”.
The “towla” is an insect known to science as the "coccus ilicis",. From its carcass, a scarlet dye was made. It has a peculiar lifestyle: it fixes itself immovably to a tree, lays its eggs, and dies. “The eggs deposited beneath her body were thus protected until the larvae were hatched…As the mother died, the crimson fluid stained her body and the surrounding wood. What a picture this gives of Christ, dying on the tree, shedding The precious blood that He might ‘bring many sons unto glory (Hebrews 2:3)” (see The NAS Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon).
Thinking on this: just as we are protected & bound to live by the blood of Christ, others are entombed & bound to death by the blood of Christ! - Revelation 20:10, 15. Verse 14 which refers to Death & Hades being cast into the lake of fire would indicate complete obliteration of existence of what gets thrown into the lake at Rev 20:14 & 15, especially as vs14 sets a precedent for vs15. This appears to be confirmed via Rev 21:1 & 4. It is logical that without the existence of Death, Hades & the Sea become redundant, ditto those in vs15.
Also note Rev 20:7-9 where God is depicted obliterating all those “whose number is as the sand of the sea” who are deceived by Satan “when the thousand years have expired, [and] Satan [is] released from his prison”.
God doesn’t cast them into the lake but we are simply told “fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them”. That indicates absolute obliteration.
Evangelists have a similar problem when they try to reconcile Rev 19:20 & 21 (probably why they ignore these texts).
vs 20 has “the false prophet” and “the beast” thrown into the “lake of fire burning with brimstone”. Then vs 21 tells us “And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh”. Notice the entire obliteration of those referred to in vs21. Obviously no need for the “lake of fire burning with brimstone”.
I’m assuming I have now covered everything scripture tells us. It matters not to me whether the reader believes in Dante’s parodies, some myth, or traditional superstition, just don’t pretend such confections are supported by scripture.
Ezekiel 18:25,29 “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair!’ [the wicked should be tortured eternally, but scripture says their debt is paid when they die]. The Lord responds: “Is it not My way which is fair, and your ways which are not fair?”
Ezekiel 18:31–32 “Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit…For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord GOD. “Therefore turn and live!”
Daniel 12:2 “And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt”. The inference from Daniel is that those not resurrected are doomed to oblivion (nonconscious existence).
[Edit 2: Some more stuff I omitted to cover...
- Someone commented that I seem to have a hang-up about pulpit pounders & evangelists. Indeed I do, and anyone that distorts the explicit teachings of scripture to satisfy their dogmatics and consequent polemics. Jesus preached the Kingdom, not Hell & damnation! I openly acknowledge that Jesus also taught the consequence of disobedience to the will of God = cessation of existence of the body & soul (Mt 10:28 "fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna").
- When the pulpit pounders & evangelists appeal to Luke 16:19-31 and exclusively focus on vs 23&24 they miss some very important points: the primary one of course is that the Rich Man, Abraham & Lazarus are all in Hades (Hell according to the KJV), and righteous Abraham & Lazarus do not experience any torment!
Lazarus remains totally inactive throughout the entire tale. The angels are said to have carried him to Abraham's bosom (Paradise in Jewish myth). Lazarus is presumably asleep (Ps 13:3) and apparently oblivious to the Rich Man's conversation with Abraham (Eccl 9:5).
The main point the pulpit pounders & evangelists miss in their polemics is the Rich Man is being tormented by a single flame (some theologians suggest the torment represents the rejection of the grace of God (the flame)), This depiction is at definite odds to Dante's & popular perceptions of "Hell".
Luke 16:19-31 has a context, which I take to be vs 14-18, thus I'm inclined to include 17:1&2 as a conclusion...
"You [religious leaders] are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts...[Jesus tells parable]...Then [Jesus] said to the disciples: It is impossible that no [false teachings] should come, but woe to him through whom they do come!"
Taking that into account, I see the parody in Jesus' tale. The Rich Man from the description of his garb and the reference to his father & five brothers can easily be taken as a depiction of Caiaphas (Annas, Caiaphas' father-in-law, and Annas' five sons were or became high priests. They are accursed in the Talmud for corrupting the Temple. All were Sadducees who did not believe in the resurrection of the dead. A. John tells us that it was Annas who had Jesus arrested, convened the Sanhedrin, convicted Jesus, and had him taken bound to Caiaphas, for presentation to Pilate).
Given Jesus tells the tale with his focus on the Pharisees that had ridiculed him, my conclusion is that in the tale, Jesus is parodying the false teachings of the religious leaders (see Hades/Sheol & Gehenna above). - 2 Thessalonians 1:9 The pulpit pounders try this one on occasion to pull in the illiterate. "οἵτινες δίκην τίσουσιν ὄλεθρον αἰώνιον ἀπὸ προσώπου τοῦ κυρίου καὶ *ἀπὸ* τῆς δόξης τῆς ἰσχύος αὐτοῦ" (These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power).
The ESV notes the reading "destruction that comes from the presence of the Lord". This and the majority of translations (from) accords with the apocalyptic vision of Daniel 7:2 (cp Rev 20) which would have been familiar to A.Paul's audience.
"ἀπὸ" literally means "out of; from". The NIV is inventive with its dogmatic interpretation of "shut out from" - Revelation 14:11. Because the pulpit pounders ignore vs 9&10 they miss two important points: Firstly: vs10 indicates a parallel to Daniel 7:10, the fire is coming from the wrath of God. From Jude 6 we might conclude the fate of the wicked is the same as Sodom & Gomorrah (why would God differentiate between the two?); Secondly vs11 is pre-millenial & apocalyptic. It has no association with the post-millenial second death occurring after the second resurrection.
The phrase "And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever, and they have no rest day or night" is a standard apocalyptic metaphor. See YHWH's curse upon Edom in Isaiah 34:9-10 "...Its streams shall be turned into pitch, And its dust into brimstone; Its land shall become burning pitch. It shall not be quenched night or day; Its smoke shall ascend forever. From generation to generation it shall lie waste..."
The phrase is not to be taken literally in either Isaiah or Revelation, but as Isaiah 34:10 makes plain, it is representative of a complete annihilation (aka "From generation to generation it shall lie waste"). - Jude 6. This is parallel to 2 Peter 2:4 which I discussed earlier wherein Tartarus is the lowest level of Hades. In Jude 6 it is depicted as the place where the fallen angels are chained until final judgment.
The pulpit-pounders seem adverse to paying attention to 2 Peter 2:6 & Jude 7. In both, the annihilation of Sodom and Gomorrha is used as a comparison to the final fate of the wicked.
In both these verses, the destruction is defined as "making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly". In Jude 7, it is stated "[these things] are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire". Note the fire is eternal, but the total annihilation of Sodom & Gomorrah was a one-off event, with everlasting consequences.
In the OT the metaphor for the enduring wrath of God is a fire that annihilates his opponents. It is a common OT theme cp: Psalms 21:9; 89:46; Isaiah 9:19; Ez 21:31; 22:21,31; 38:19; Zeph 1:18; Dan 7:10. - There is a premise by the pulpit pounders that the human soul is unconditionally immortal, and only the body is mortal. However, as Luther pointed out the scriptural evidence is: that the soul is conditionally immortal.
Jesus explicitly stated that the soul could be annihilated, just like the body. Matthew 10:28 "Fear only God, who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna".
In Greek, Matthew used the verb "apollymi" (translated destroy) to elucidate Jesus' teaching. This word has the primary meaning of "to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin" ie: annihilate! - From Genesis 3 & Revelation 22 it is explicit that human persistence is only granted to those who have access to the tree of life.
It could be argued that these verses only apply to the body.
1 Cor 15:53-54 with Mt 10:28 might arbitrate on this matter as Genesis 2:7 states that when God breathed into the molded clay that would become Adam, Adam became a living "nephesh" (soul, in the Hebrew scriptures & Jewish thought).
It is worth noting that in scripture it is the soul that sins not the body per se (in later Jewish thought the soul is what motivates the flesh to action). Thus in Ezekiel 18:20, we read "The soul which sins shall die" whereas (vs21) "if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed...he shall surely live; he shall not die. one of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live".
At Psalms 41:4 David pleads "LORD, be merciful to me; Heal my soul, for I have sinned against You". In the OT it isn't the body that sins, but the soul and thus the penalty of death is upon the soul. The body is just an incidental casualty. It is a consistent theme in the OT, that is preserved in the NT. - 1 Samuel 28, Saul has the witch of Endor summon Samuel from the grave. This one I always forget because…
a. Saul appeals to the witch of Endor for assistance. Previously Saul had all the witches & soothsayers in his realm executed (vs9) as required under Moses’ ordinances.
b. Saul had been rejected by YHWH, and Samuel, Saul’s conduit to God had died. The witch was asked to summon Samuel from the grave (vs11),
c. The witch could only identify that she had summoned “a spirit ascending out of the earth” (vs13). Saul asked for a description and assumed it was Samuel (vs14) and “he stooped with his face to the ground and bowed down”. Samuel (?) is depicted as having been disturbed from his sleep (vs15).
d. At no time does Saul directly hear or see Samuel during the seance. At all times Saul is dependent on what the witch tells him.
e. The common presumption is YHWH had used the witch to condemn Saul and did not sanction her witchcraft.
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I came across an article citing a fellow named J.I. Packer whose aim was to refute presumably the JW argument for annihilationism (nb: I don't adhere to JW or like opinion, I only adhere to the explicit witness of scripture)...
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/j-i-packer-on-why-annihilationism-is-wrong/
Packer declares: "Nowhere in Scripture does death signify extinction; physical death is a departure into another mode of being, called Sheol or hades, and metaphorical death is an existence that is God-less and graceless; nothing in biblical usage warrants the idea that the “second death” of Revelation 2:11; 20:14; and 21:8 means or involves cessation of being".
This fellow is obviously suffering from the curse of Isaiah (Isa 6:9-10; Mt 13:13-15 cp. Jer 5:21; Ezekiel 12:2; Deut 29:4; Mk 18:18; Rom 11:8).
Packer in his eisegesis has a need to distort scripture and resort to emotive rhetoric to distract from what is written in scripture. His predisposition to unscriptural dogma (pagan ideas drawn from Plato) of the unconditional immortality of the soul is self-evidentiary. This immediately puts him on the left foot, as he pursues a presumption rather than performing an unbiased analysis.
Matthew 10:28 defeats Packer on that score alone (according to Jesus the soul can be killed, just like the body). There is no scriptural support for Packer's assertion concerning Hades/Sheol = "physical death is a departure into another mode of being". The scriptural testimony is that death & deposition into Hades/Sheol is comparable to the senselessness of sleep. That God somehow preserves the righteous in this state until the resurrection is a foregone conclusion of believers, but the "how" is not stated in scripture. That is a matter of hope & faith in the promise of the resurrection, which A.Paul concludes will be an event where we will arise in perfection, not as we were (1 Cor 15:52-58).
Even more devastating to Packer, is his unsupportable ascertain that "nothing in biblical usage warrants the idea that the 'second death' of Revelation 2:11; 20:14; and 21:8 means or involves cessation of being". That statement just pleads ignorance of scripture!
Scripture declares emphatically that Death, Hades & the Sea cease to exist in their entirety = Rev 20:13-14; 21:1,4.
At 21:1 though the cessation of existence of Hades is implicit, the cessation of existence of the Sea is explicit. Rev 20:13 ties together Hades & the Sea as together being the former depository of the dead; 21:4 explicitly states there will be no more death, "there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away". If no more death then no more death, and no need for the depositories, so they both obviously cease to exist (Rev 21:1).
Rev 20:14 tells us Death & Hades are thrown into the lake of fire, and this cessation of existence (see 21:1,4) is the second death.
Rev 21:8 explicitly states the second death is the fate of the unrighteous therein named (cp, Rev 20:15).
Rev 21:8 does not refer to any duration or torment or suffering, which is consistent with vs4.
Conclusion: the second death is the cessation of existence.
Packer makes another ignorant remark based on his own presumptions: "Texts like Jude 6, Matthew 8:12, Matthew 22:13, and Matthew 25:30 show that darkness signifies a state of deprivation and distress, not of destruction in the sense of ceasing to exist. After all, only those who exist can weep and gnash their teeth, as those banished into the darkness are said to do".
The trouble is that each of the depictions Packer cites is an explicit prelude to final judgment, not the result!
Jesus' teaching in Matthew is consistent with Jewish thought that some period of purgation precedes judgment. The Eastern Orthodox believe that purgation is in this life, the RCC believes it extends into the afterlife but is not enduring. Protestants seem to have mixed opinions but many seem attracted to far eastern pagan mythologies.
It amused me greatly that Packer thought it necessary to appeal to what he calls "extrabiblical apocalyptic" literature as his final arbitrator. So much for the pretense of sola scriptura.
I hope I have now covered everything from scripture.
If anyone has anything to add or dispute please post a comment directed to this post.
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